To be candid, they hadn’t. It was something some writers wrote and some people didn’t, and rarely (if ever) been something that was used to drive stories. This wasn’t Magneto/Scarlet Witch.
(When I asked about it, the official internal Marvel answer was “It’s never been confirmed 100% for sure in the comics.”)
In short: Hela’s been around too long to be Loki’s “daughter”. Hela is Loki’s daughter in *myth*, which works because Loki is Thor’s *uncle* in myth. When you have Loki and Thor on the same generations, that changes things fundamentally. There’s lots of implications of that, in terms of what it says about Loki, Thor, Hela and everything else, but they’re too many to walk through. Even a cursory thought will see some problems.
(The explanations I’ve seen have rang hollow, to say the least, and do not leave her Loki’s daughter in any meaningful way.)
That it bugged me wasn’t my motivation to do it. The fact Marvel viewed it as a mystery made me want to Journey into it and see what could happen. I ended up with something I decided was at least elegant and maintained all the Father/Daughter that had ever been between them. Matt’s brilliance in terms of Kid Loki was that it allowed us, as the reader, to see what a wonderful kid Loki was, and understand why Thor may not have killed him years ago. Hela wasn’t quite that, but in the neighbourhood - we got to see the relationship that lead to Hela. We know Hela and Loki better than we did before.
That I’d done as much real character work with Hela as anyone made me feel I’d earned the right to do it. Making Hela and Hel a little more developed was certainly one of my projects - by the time I’d left JIM, I’d left her with a supporting cast complete with internal drama, etc.
Structurally speaking, Hela was the counter-melody to Loki in JIM, and JIM would have been a weaker story without her.
EDIT: It also occurs to me that how I did it was important. It was possible to miss. Like most my more twists of a certain type, it’s a little more subtle.
I saw a comment today wherein the author of the post declared loudly and vehemently that Tony Stark was a spoiled and selfish drunk who had had a charmed life and honestly cared only for himself and partying. A man who blustered through life laughing and joking. That he really wasn’t a hero of the same caliber of the other Avenger’s and they (the author of the post) were surprised the Avenger’s even let him join. Further, they summarized that since he had always been that way, had been born with a silver spoon in his mouth and was doted on since birth, he would never change.
I sat for a while. Re-read the post. Read it again. Went and had a smoke. Came back. Read it again. Contemplated moving on and couldn’t. It just kept whispering away at me.
I have no idea if the blogger was considering MCU Tony or 616, but either way, imo, they are so far off base, the game changed at half time and the diamond became a muddied pitch.
Anthony Stark was born into wealth, yes. Doted on since birth? By whom? Certainly not his father. Howard Stark was a physically and emotionally abusive bastard and I don’t care how much money and power you stand to inherit, that shit leaves scars. Deep ones. Scars that no-one can see but which you can still feel the blood flowing from and the ache of the bruise decades later. Spoiled? Perhaps, in the sense that young Tony was provided with all the tools his father’s social standing and bank accounts could afford. He lived in a mansion, had a butler, went to private schools. None of that though compensated for the fact that those private schools were boarding schools that Tony started attending when he was seven. Barely out of babyhood, he was sent away from his mother, from his home, from all he knew and was left with the distinct knowledge that if he didn’t excel at everything, his father’s hand would exact the price.
He’s a drunk? Absolutely. Tony Stark is a recovering alcoholic. Does he do it just to look cool and party with the in crowd? No. Fairly sure Tony graduated from that school decades ago. He is a dyed in the wool alcoholic in life-long recovery. It isn’t a cool story line. It isn’t a funny thing to throw into a fic for light relief. It is a day to day, minute to minute struggle that Tony will face for the rest of his life.
Laughing and joking? In another life Tony would have been an award wining actor. To understand this man you need to pay attention not to what he says and does, but to what he doesn’t say and do. Tony has a suicidal/depressive streak the size of Texas. Insecurities were implanted in this man at birth. Tony is a showman. He can hide anything. however, deep inside, in that still, small quiet place that only he hears, the pain is black and thick and muddled and confused and only those that truly know him, that pay attention to what he isn’t saying, know just how self destructive this man can be….and only those that take the time and effort and are willing to pay the fee of heartache and tears that are the toll exacted to get close to him, know why.
A charmed life? Really? Are you sure we are talking the same Tony Stark here? The Tony Stark who’s parents died in a car accident and left him orphaned as a teenager? The same one who’s surrogate father had him kidnapped and held thousands of miles from his home and family? Tony Stark who was tortured by same said kidnappers and operated on without anesthetic while he screamed himself hoarse in agonizing pain and crippling terror? Anthony Stark, who has lost his company, had everything taken from him and clawed his way back? Stark who lost his mind, his family, his best friend in a bitter war that left bodies, hearts and souls stained with the blood of soul mates and lovers? That Tony Stark? Yeah, his life as been charmed as hell.
Not good enough to be an Avenger? The team he houses and funds? The same Avenger’s that he founded? The Avenger’s that he deleted his brilliant mind to protect? Not enough of a hero you say? Tony would actually agree with you. No-one loathes him as much as he does himself. No-one feels his inadequacy as much as he does. He would agree that wrapping himself in metal and launching himself bodily into battle to save his city, his country isn’t good enough. Carrying a nuke on his back to certain death? Tony would very much agree that this doesn’t constitute a hero. However, his friends and family, the one who had to watch the man they love risk killing himself over and over and see him coming back again and again, bloodied and bruised with just that much more of himself taken away, all to keep them safe, to keep the country safe, 'to protect those who can't do so themselves', Those people would take you to the floor and fight you in the dirt to be sure you know that Anthony Stark may be a lot of things but selfish isn’t one of them and that above all Tony Stark is a hero and a patriot who has before, and will again, sacrifice himself willingly to protect those he loves. No matter what it takes from him personally and no matter how little of himself it leaves him with, he will throw himself on the line every time, because he doesn’t feel he matters, because the people always come first…because that’s what heroes do.
Let’s just take a look at Clint here when he’s jumping off the roof of a building shall we?
He’s slamming into that glass feet first. HARD. And they don’t make those windows thin! Why would they, given the height of these New York City buildings. They’re meant to hold up against high…
LOOK. Despite all the pushing, grabing and shoving, Thor NEVER beats Loki. [Gif from my post here]
Yes they fight each other all the time, and there are lots of punching and hitting between the two, but when you think about it, never once you see Thor beats Loki up even when he is given the chance (like the scene above).
He never starts a fight with Loki, every single time it’s Loki who picks the fight, verbally and physcially. Thor would defend himself and fight back, but only when Loki is armed, not defenseless. Those fights that took place in Thor and the Avengers, you can see the two of them were pretty much equal, Thor was undoubtedly stronger but Loki wasn’t weak, and he had Odin’s spear in his hand, and the power from the tesseract.
But when Loki is vulnerable, Thor never takes advantage of him.
when Thor finally got the upper hand in the fight, instead of bashing Loki with his hammer, like what he did to most people, he placed it on Loki’s chest to immobilize him. Thor was mad, because his brother was fighting him for a reason he couldn’t understand, but he didn’t want to hurt Loki, he wanted to talk to him, he wanted to understand.
Thor tossed Loki hard onto the ground, but that was it. With all his anger and pain (having to bear the ‘death’ of his brother for I dont know how long only to find out he’s alive and trying to subjugate Earth), he could at least give Loki a punch in the face and no one could blame him. Yet he didn’t, he still wanted to talk him through, he still wanted to take him home.
Both of them were suffering from the loss of their mother, they both felt responsible of her death. And when Loki childishly blaming Thor for like everything, Thor lost his temper. Though, he couldn’t bring himself to take it on Loki, especailly when Loki was handcuffed and he was absolutlely defenseless, so he stopped.
I’ve seen many films and shows featuring two brothers, brothers always fight, and it’s very common that one ends up beating up the other.
But I doubt could Thor ever bring himself to lay a hand on Loki, and in fact, I wonder could he ever win a fight over Loki, because soon as he gains the upper hand, he stops.
I’ve never had my geek cred questioned. No one asks me if I “actually read this stuff” as I work behind the counter of my LCS. When I say how much I enjoy a book like Ms. Marvel or Wonder Woman, people take me on my word. When I check out a store in another…
I’ve been so, so lucky not to have been confronted by anyone like this. But I know it isn’t always like that, so I can only hope that anyone just getting into comics has a positive experience, and doesn’t get treated this way.
What is all this hating on ant man crap? Ant Man is a founding avenger! The fact that Hawkeye and Black Widow were put on the team before him and Wasp is the true crime here.
I get the whole desire for equal representation, but seriously. The movie has been worked on since Iron Man came out. Whereas Black Widow hasn’t even gotten a script because people know she isn’t interesting enough to support her own movie trilogy
Like I keep saying, Natasha had a director and script attached to a film before the first Iron Man movie came out. It’s been worked on since the mid-2000s. The script is a real thing, I’ve read it, it even had an obvious hook for a sequel. That shows, to the contrary, that Marvel knows, hook-wise, that she can hold her own film. Her espionage tropes are the kind of language movie-goers already speak. Her costume and look translate to film with minimal retouching. That’s the reason she was brought in so quickly to the Cinematic Universe, once they had the go-ahead to create a cinematic universe. She’s easy to make sense of on the big screen.
Black Widow was cancelled because Ultraviolet and Elektra tanked, because executives were afraid female vigilantes were box office poison. “We don’t think it’s time to do this movie,” they said. So the reason Natasha doesn’t have a film already isn’t because she’s not recognizable enough, isn’t because she’s not interesting enough, isn’t because there’s not enough there in her concept for films to mine. It’s because she’s a woman, and that’s an even harder sell than Ant-Man, and that’s not a little bit messed-up.
Janet being left off the initial Avengers line-up is one of my greatest movieverse regrets, especially since Whedon created a script that had her there and talking, and the early storyboards featured Wasp standing with the rest of the team. But the reason people are “hating on” Ant-man is that a big-name humor website is making fun of Ant-Man. Which is easy to do, because his name is Ant-Man. I’m not really on board this train because idk, Ant-Man lolololol strikes me as lazy, but seriously, there’s no hidden depths of character legitimacy that Hank Pym (or Scott Lang) possesses that Natasha R. doesn’t.
i discussed this at length just the other night, actually. the timeline isn’t wonky, and you haven’t missed any more than anyone else might have.
In what is the most likely outline for the Ant-Man film, Scott Lang becomes Ant-Man though a series of events that leads his civilian electronics engineer character to turn to thievery in order to gather what he needs to save the life of his daughter Cassandra “Cassie” Lang (herself eventually…
I wrote an essay exploring Loki and Frigga’s relationship and the use of magic and the feminine realm in Marvel’s Thor: The Dark World! Read it here at The Discriminating Fangirl!
It’s the first thing I’ve written in about a year that I was really excited to write. Please let me know what you think and share your own thoughts about Thor: The Dark World. Also, beware, SPOILERS.
In case you missed the earlier post, Kerry wrote a fantastic essay about Loki, Frigga, and magic at TDF. Be sure to read it!
I’m going to tell you why Black Widow doesn’t have her own film.
You can’t blame Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man. Mostly, because then you just wind up arguing with fans who are really excited about a movie with their fav and not, you know, rich movie executives…